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Old 02-21-2018, 12:12 AM   #51
e30Racer
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I am glad you commented. That is the whole point of the comment period that SCCA is conducting. These rules are currently just a framework and as Heyeard mentioned, they don’t have anyone in the inner group who is running in the V8 camp or like classes. So your comments are helpful, but try not to be so negative. They aren’t intentionally trying to exclude a certain car or class, they likely just didn’t know that the 315’s are the common tire.

However, if there is no difference between the 305 and the 315, and the price is nearly the same, why can’t you run the 305?

I haven’t listened to the whole video so I’ll save any comments til later.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:43 AM   #52
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I liked the comments about what TT can be in terms of the quest for fastest lap times and speed. While autox and club racing is always about competitiveness and equal balance between cars, TT can be more about pure speed. Make whatever car you want as fast as you can within the rules. The idea of developing the car and yourself to see how much faster you can get, as well as the competition of those competitors around your same lap speed is what always drew me to TTs.
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:04 AM   #53
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Well stated! Nice job Miles.

I can't access the draft rules doc from work. Did the insane "all parts must be available from Tire Rack" piece actually make it? Talk about ostracizing almost your entire target demographic...
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:34 AM   #54
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That rule is only for level 1 cars (maybe level 2, I can’t remember). I agree it is a weird rule. There is supposed to be a listing which will show all parts for your car and if you want something included you can request it. I haven’t looked at the classes yet to see what the rules say about which parts you can change.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:28 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e30Racer View Post
However, if there is no difference between the 305 and the 315, and the price is nearly the same, why can’t you run the 305?
Because they don't make it for 18in rims lol and I don't have a set 19x11 to mount them on. I could run 295s and I think Falken or Nexus makes a 305/30-18, but I would buy those purely for these events and I can't justify that.

Edit to say: I'm sorry if I came off negative, I actually am starting to like the design of this program. I saw this one issue that affects me and at least 6 other cars I can think of around the area of NCMMP. Most of them would probably go to this and wanted to make a point. I have some reservations with the safety rules with street prep cars, I'm worried about having a rash of boiled brake fluid and having some big "offs." NASA avoids this by having short open track sessions, like 10 mins. So you get a warmup lap, a hot lap, a second lap on overheated tires, pit in.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:36 AM   #56
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link to rules: http://sccahq.com/time-trials-rules/ if anyone is interested
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:14 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e30Racer View Post
That rule is only for level 1 cars (maybe level 2, I canít remember). I agree it is a weird rule. There is supposed to be a listing which will show all parts for your car and if you want something included you can request it. I havenít looked at the classes yet to see what the rules say about which parts you can change.
Understood. That makes it even more baffling and it makes your entry levels inaccessible to the majority of potential entrants for no reason other than sponsor. When I think of just sway bars & shocks I wouldn't be surprised if the Tire Rack limitation excludes 90%+ of all existing autocross cars.

To put it another way, I would be interested in going to NCM or possibly CMP and giving it a try. My Mustang has a Strano sway bar. Sounds like I'm excluded.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:25 PM   #58
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I agree it is weird. Sounds to me like this is a good way for TireRack to update their parts inventory and find out what parts people are buying so they can now sale them. Now of course you don’t have to buy the parts from TireRack, they just have to be available. It seems as though SCCA is asking everyone to come to them and let them know what parts they are using so they can make rules around the “popular” parts instead. Seems backwards to me.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:33 PM   #59
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I wished I could access that link from work.

From reading elsewhere the "Tire Rack rule" may only include shocks. I still think that's a big problem but at least it may be somewhat constrained.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:22 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodhx View Post
I wished I could access that link from work.

From reading elsewhere the "Tire Rack rule" may only include shocks. I still think that's a big problem but at least it may be somewhat constrained.
There is a little bit of "equivalency" verbiage in the rule and the video. As in, koni shocks are sold by TireRack and the Tokico is basically the same design as a koni, so tokico is legal. As compared to say, my Whiteline rear ARB which is not sold by TireRack and doesn't look or even mount to the same places as the ARBs sold there.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:29 PM   #61
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Here is the rules straight from the book Rod
Shocks:
2. Any allowed shock must be commonly available (or have been available) at SCCA
supporting partner Tire Rack, for regular retail sales and without custom order. Parts do
not have to be sourced from the Tire Rack, but they must be as they would have come
off the shelf from there, or the shock must be on a specific approval list.

3. If you believe there is a commonly available retail unit which otherwise fits the intent
of these rules but is not available at The Tire Rack you may write in for specific approval
of that brand and model.

Springs:
A set of springs may be substituted (E.g. “Lowering Kit”) providing that the number, type, system of attachment and attachment points are not altered, except as noted below.

1. Any allowed set of springs must be commonly available (or have been available) at
SCCA supporting partner Tire Rack, for regular retail sales and without custom order.
Parts do not have to be sourced from the Tire Rack, but they must be as they would
have come off the shelf from there, or the set of springs must be on a specific approval
list.

2. If you believe there is a commonly available retail unit which otherwise fits the intent
of these rules but is not available at The Tire Rack you may write in for specific approval
of that brand and model.

Anti roll bars:
No tire rack rule mentioned.

It also says Street class AutoX cars are legal to run in the correct class even if their modifications are not legal to this ruleset but cannot mix and match rules. No lowering springs on a Street car in other words.
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Old 02-21-2018, 01:49 PM   #62
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yeah, what Miles said. Rod, you're strano bar is fine as only shocks and springs are required to be available from Tire Rack or on an approved listing. It is an interesting way to go about it, we'll see how it works out.
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:54 PM   #63
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It creates an unnecessary hurdle for the folks not running "Tire Rack equivalent" shocks. I get trying to control costs, but Heyward is 100% "everyone come for the experience" and the rule is an issue as currently written. I imagine it will get tweaked though.

The Street category inclusion doesn't help me...I'm ST-lite.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:06 AM   #64
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Tire Rack is a sponsor. Plain to see that Heyward is sucking up to Tire Rack. Did Tire Rack ever get this sort of positive treatment from SOLO? IMHO, this Tire Rack restriction is a severe impediment for a lot of potential drivers. Suggest sending emails to Heyward with your concerns and reasons for not being able to attend the new TT Event.
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