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Old 03-14-2013, 09:43 AM   #1
DelanieC
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Default TGPR spring PDX

Do you guys know if the double hoop roll bar I have (I think it's this one http://www.gomiata.com/doublehoop.html ) will work for PDX or will I have to run with the hard top on?
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:17 AM   #2
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You will get better aero with the hardtop on (less drag).
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:26 AM   #3
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It depends on the bar and how well you pass the "broomstick test". I would plan to have the hardtop on...it just makes everything easier. Actually, I would have never considered running my Miata on track without the hardtop anyway.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:30 PM   #4
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Is the hard top really that much safer? I thought it would just fly off in a rollover situation.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:58 PM   #5
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It's safety is hotly debated and really not the point. The fact of the matter is having a roll bar & a hardtop will tend to get you on any track with any group. Some organizers/tracks will not allow convertibles top down on track so without the HT you'd have to run soft top up. Some will require seat, harness, & arm restraints unless you have a HT. Others will only let you out with the HT. And still others will let you run around top down with your head clearly above the roll bar & stock seats/belts.

BTW, I have seen all of the above at Barber at events I've either run or worked corners. I know you are primarily concerned about TGPR, but this is just an example of the importance of reading an event's supps. Just 'cause you've seen one thing allowed at a given track doesn't mean it will be that way with another group.

Since you have a HT already it would be simplest to just plan to use it, especially since you do not have softtop. If you get somewhere and it is okay to go topless you can always take it off.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodhx View Post
It's safety is hotly debated and really not the point. The fact of the matter is having a roll bar & a hardtop will tend to get you on any track with any group. Some organizers/tracks will not allow convertibles top down on track so without the HT you'd have to run soft top up. Some will require seat, harness, & arm restraints unless you have a HT. Others will only let you out with the HT. And still others will let you run around top down with your head clearly above the roll bar & stock seats/belts.

BTW, I have seen all of the above at Barber at events I've either run or worked corners. I know you are primarily concerned about TGPR, but this is just an example of the importance of reading an event's supps. Just 'cause you've seen one thing allowed at a given track doesn't mean it will be that way with another group.

Since you have a HT already it would be simplest to just plan to use it, especially since you do not have softtop. If you get somewhere and it is okay to go topless you can always take it off.
This is what I do
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:39 PM   #7
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LOL Heath. He just laid it out there for ya.

Yeah, the two track events I've done were pretty much anything goes and not very educational either. I'm looking forward to getting some actual instruction. I'm like 90% sure I'm doing it. The hard top will be with me either way. With the way the seats are mounted in that car, it's just easier to get in and out without the top. .... and the feeling of the wind through your hair ... or visor I guess ...
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:04 AM   #8
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The only other thing to consider with the PDX is not only do you need to pass the broomstick test, but your instructor needs adequate protection also. It will ultimately be your instructor's call whether they feel safe in the car.

That being said, as an instructor, I would be fine with the car as long as I can trust the student. I would be more comfortable with a hardtop just for less noise and chance of debris in the car.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:29 AM   #9
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Yeah, I'm fine at 5' 9" but anyone much taller than that would be a problem. Rod drove the car briefly with the top on and he said his helmet was hitting the roof. Hopefully I can get a more miata sized instructor, heh. I suppose I should look at some different seat brackets in the relatively near future. I appreciate the help guys!
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:20 AM   #10
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Yep...your mounts have the race seat higher than a stock seat. That and it's too narrow for a fat old man like me
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:23 AM   #11
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I've heard some Miata folk say that they've taken padding out of the seat to get more head clearance. Personally, I've never had to worry about that issue.
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Last edited by chuck schultz; 03-15-2013 at 09:23 AM. Reason: past tense of take is taken, duh
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodhx View Post
too narrow
Have somebody you trust hold your wallet.
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Last edited by chuck schultz; 03-15-2013 at 09:25 AM. Reason: the whole trust thing
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodhx View Post
race seat
Disregard previous comment about padding, then.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck schultz View Post
Have somebody you trust hold your wallet.
We're talking about race cars...my wallet actually has a negative thickness
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodhx View Post
We're talking about race cars...my wallet actually has a negative thickness
^^^this
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:12 AM   #16
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The guy who I think did all of that car's current mods is about 5' 4" or so. Maybe he mounted them that high on purpose, hah.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:45 AM   #17
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Lots of discussion above but let me see if I can distill it down a bit.

The Boss Frog rollbar you have would not be legal for TT Level 3 because of the bend in the rear supports. I would allow it for a PDX. That particular bar (like the Hard Dog Hard Top bar) is lower than a Hard Dog or Kirk soft top bar. The difference between the soft top and hard top bars is that the bar is set rearward a bit more such that the bar does not interfere with the hard top side latches. Being further to the rear means that it has to be lower (as much as an inch) to get under the hard top. The soft top bars usually fit under the hard top anyway but you need to use a hard mount for the side latches (which is easy to get on and off).

If you are running without a top, having your helmeted head under a broomstick sitting on the rollbar and windshield is desired for both driver and instructor. If you run with a hardtop, then the broomstick test is not applicable.

Getting under a rollbar in a Miata is difficult for most people (forget about the 2" rule, just getting under it is difficult). You mention that you are 5'9" so depending on torso length, you may have a problem. Some people take an inch out of the stock seat padding to get a bit lower. Most race seats (SParco, etc) will not get you low enough particularly if they are mounted on the stock sliders or other mounts. An Aluminum seat mounted on 2 steel straps between the stock seat mounts seems to work best for the track..

The hard top is aerodynamically faster than running with the top down. But this is a PDX and there is no timing so who cares if you are 2-3 mph faster on the back straight at TGPR. Top speed on the back straight is more dependent on how well you take the skidpad and how fast you exit the skidpad than the hardtop will give you by itself.

My suggestion is to bring the Hardtop with you. You can always take it off.

We would be happy to take a look at your car and suggest some changes if needed.
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Last edited by farrout; 03-25-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:47 PM   #18
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Thanks for the info! I'll have the hardtop with me for sure. The mods on this car seem kind of thrown together so I'm glad to have any and all suggestions. It sounds like I need to add a serious roll bar to the list of future upgrades.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:22 AM   #19
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What sort of mods? There are a number of discussions by Waight, Lacey, and myself on here about modding a NA Miata for TT.
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